Re-commenting to the correct post :)

And again, Dodo shows himself to be above the rest of the lifelikepundits crowd...

Rather than simply stonewall and propogate his own argument, he acknowledges that, in fact, his points could have flaws...

If only we were all so directly honest...

"could have flaws" is "so directly honest"???

What color are the sunsets on your planet?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/12/D8CITSNO0.html

jreid, you posting that link over and over again isn't addressing what I said, and has not yet addressed what I said.

Thanks for playing, though, if mindlessly.

I think I heard today that Nagin's reason wasn't nowhere to go (necessarily), it was "no one to drive."

Um... OK. I hope that if I was in the same situation, with thousands of people dying and suffering, I would've had the wherewithal to find groups of people and shout: "Anyone here able to drive a bus? You drive it and your whole family can be first on it." Find a few cops or highway patrol to lead a caravan. Wasn't there some little kid that drove one all the way to Houston? He didn't even have a license!

Yeah - that does sound great on the face of it, but imagine if one accident happens - the lawsuits pending from a state or federal sanctioned non-trained person driving a bus (even if they had a license) would be huge indeed.

Basically? In future, in similar circumstances, we need mroe people like that 16 year-old kid who did the right thing...I am curious as to why there aren't more stories like his...

I'm not saying I would be playing the hero myself down there, and I do have this paranoia about breaking the law - but I do hope I would have the balls to do what he did, and wish more people did.

Of course, most people (in general) likely tend to think of themselves first - they wouldn't go for a bus, cause they don't want that big a responsibility - they just want a way out...

Can anyone find a link to a news report in which Ray Nagin states why the buses weren't used?

tj

I fail to see the question in your post...

"Re-commenting to the correct post :)

And again, Dodo shows himself to be above the rest of the lifelikepundits crowd...

Rather than simply stonewall and propogate his own argument, he acknowledges that, in fact, his points could have flaws...

If only we were all so directly honest...
"

Sounds like sucking up to me.

The busses could have and should have been used to evacuate at least the hospitals. The link, posted once each in two different threads, points out the result. How many towns within 100 miles north and west that could have taken a bus load or two into their high schools and hospitals for temporary shelter?

The failure of the local and state government to conserve and utilize their assets, this means drivers too, has no excuse.

HEre is a link with Nagin defending his non compliance with the evacuation plan. Scroll down.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9240461/

The reason I agree with you, is this:

If they had sent people out on school buses, with nowhere to go, or no one qualified to drive them, and the levees didn't break, the city would've found itself in all sorts of trouble with people complaining in 20-20 hindsight about the USE of the buses.

I don't accept the excuse that the busses wouldn't have had a destination. 20 miles north and stuck on a bus is a hell of a lot better than the alternative. "I'm just going to keep sitting in the shark tank because I don't see anywhere nice to sit."

And the outflow of charity is no surprise. Nobody saw this coming? Park one bus in each nearby city and call the radio stations to help summon business sponsors. What business wouldn't be willing to live the heartbreaking tale of caring for a bus full of refugees and cement community love for decades coming? You can't buy advertising like that, and it didn't take but 30 seconds to come up with the idea.

jreid: "sounds like sucking up to me"

If by "sucking up" you mean I'm trying to foster the impression that Dodo seems to be less partisan than the remainder of the posters on this site, then you are correct.

However, I've followed Dodo's link to his site, and have found that while I prefer the open-mindedness of his last few posts, I cannot relate to him at all in his religious beliefs, and am unlikely to follow his expression beyond the bounds of this site - so, if you mean I'm sucking up to him, you're completely incorrect.

Otherwise, I am not at all arguing that the local, state, or federal governments involved are in any way lacking individual culpability in any of the miss-steps throughout the process - miss-steps not really being near a strong enough word, as many of those miss-steps have cost many people their lives.

Should the buses have been used for evacuation purposes? Absolutley. Was that a logical better solution than what has been done? Without a doubt? Would it have been a completely viable solution? Maybe, but the caveats listed by myself and others do apply, whether to good or bad end.

In the end, while the end-result was (and is) horrible, Jesse Jackson's assertions do have at least some merit.

The opposing viewpoints have merit, as well.

There is no perfect answer to this specific question any more than any other. The entire situation is effed-up. People (at all levels, some more than others) made horrid decisions that cost lives - and we've yet to be certain that any of them will answer for those decisions.

I am, thus far, the only person I've seen on this site thus far calling for full responsibility being applied to all parties to the fullest extent in each case.

Lets get back to what the Dodo said...

"The Dodo rarely agrees with Rev. Jackson on any subject. Yet, the Dodo believes that Rev. Jackson is correct about the non-use of the buses in New Orleans."

This is the crux of the matter.

"If New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin had filled every available bus with passengers prior to the hurricane strike, just where was Mayor Nagin supposed to have sent the buses?"

What the hell is a Disaster Plan for? What does it include? How about north and west just for starters?

"It wouldn’t have been enough to send the buses “away from the hurricane” as Sean Hannity suggested. Not only can a hurricane change its course prior to reaching land, but also, sending buses full of people to unprepared locations would cause all sorts of problems."

Away from the coast is ALWAYS going to be better than on the coast. It is pretty basic weather to understand the strength od a hurricane diminishes rapidily as it comes ashore. The planners in NOLA didn't know this?

Why were the locations "unprepared"? Is not that their job? As is the case now, even if NO preperations had been made, the local populations would have risen to the occasion. I maintain that they would have recieved better care than they did in NOLA.

"Mayor Nagin needed to send evacuees to places that were prepared to receive evacuees, but such places weren’t offered until after the hurricane had passed."

Offered???? It was his job (and the sorry Homeland Security Louisiana) to pre-plan these locations.

"You don't have to like Jesse Jackson or agree with his politics in order to admit that pundits may have been too harsh on Ray Nagin."

No!! They have not. If Ray Nagin was a white man he would have faced the full scorn of the MSM. He is getting a bye so far. When the Dems get their investigation with all the time lines and communications available the Reverand Jesse Jackson's position is going to be untenable. He had a plan. He did not pull the trigger. He will have to answer. The 45 dead in the hospital are mute witness to the corruption and ineptitude in NOLA and state government. And they are just one example. The Dodo screwed the pooch on this one.

As for your touchy feely every body is wrong every body is right, no. People were wrong and they deserve the full light of public scrutiny.

"I am, thus far, the only person I've seen on this site thus far calling for full responsibility being applied to all parties to the fullest extent in each case."

You are not calling for full responsibility. Youa nd the good Reverand are trying to give Nagin a bye.

I think Nagin's current excuse is not having enough drivers. It would be interesting to know if city employee contracts had any sort of emergency contigencies, i.e., conditions under which they could be called upon to do other duties.

As for having destinations that are prepared to accept the buses, that is when Nagin should have been on the phone with the Governor, who in turn should have been on the phone with the mayors of Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Alexandria,...telling them that busloads of evacuees were headed their way.

I know I am being an Monday morning armchair quarterback, but it seems that Hurricane Ivan's near miss last year should have provided some training and a chance to work the bugs out of the system. But instead, the "Big Easy" culture prevailed.

whoever the no-named poster was, you're completely wrong, and you haven't read my posts...

I have called and continued to call for everyone who had a position of authority in relation to the disaster to be called to account fully for their lack of leadership in preparation and reaction to the disaster.

I did not equivocate. I did not proffer one side should enjoy any less focus than the other.

I said everyone should be held accountable to the fullness of their responsibility.

If English isn't your first language, I understand your mistake, and hope I've re-worded this in a way you can understand.

If English is not your first language - shame on your for not reacting to what I've stated, but merely to your own emotions.

CORRECTION: last line - if Engish _IS_ your first language...